Does Tradition mandate Kelly being fired after this year
- Thread starter IrishBlooded
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Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
" ND is as likely to go 5-7 next yr as they are to go 12-0 "- Purse 23K March 2015
good analysis you pathetic mutt
Defining DB
good analysis you pathetic mutt
Defining DB
"And bringing up Kelly getting fired or not tends to get people to join the conversation. Now on the record I am all for keeping him. I think he has done a great job."
I like you IB but what is your definition of great?
I like you IB but what is your definition of great?
^ like common core - standard of great is not what it used to be, it is now hard to discern it from mediocre.
But, soon enough, this is all resolved. The OP made a point about the coaching longevity and the accomplishments or fate of coaches with 5 years.
But the KK's won't let discussion take place without vulgarity or personal attacks. Sad state of things here.
But, soon enough, this is all resolved. The OP made a point about the coaching longevity and the accomplishments or fate of coaches with 5 years.
But the KK's won't let discussion take place without vulgarity or personal attacks. Sad state of things here.
while I don't think the won-loss record is worthy of being called "great" I do think Kelly HAS done a great job in rebuilding the sunday through Friday workings of a major college football program. nd is back to where it needs to be in that area. what he inherited was an absolute train wreck inside that building. I'm not sure most fans knew how bad it had gotten from the overall administrative end of things. you can't have consistent success on Saturday until you have consistent success sunday through Friday. nd is now light years ahead of what it was in that area when Kelly took over.
This post was edited on 4/11 7:37 AM by echowaker
Echo
"C'mon man"
Coach Kelly has been here 5 season and has yet to put a QB on the field who can control the ball. QB development and red zone production has been dismal.
MZ has great promise
By elivating ND above what Weis did was no great act(see coach Holtz after coach Faust)
Coach Saban and coach Meyer are great coaches
If what we have witnessed at ND is a definition as "great" then the definition has surly changed
This post was edited on 4/11 10:03 AM by deadirishpoet
"C'mon man"
Coach Kelly has been here 5 season and has yet to put a QB on the field who can control the ball. QB development and red zone production has been dismal.
MZ has great promise
By elivating ND above what Weis did was no great act(see coach Holtz after coach Faust)
Coach Saban and coach Meyer are great coaches
If what we have witnessed at ND is a definition as "great" then the definition has surly changed
This post was edited on 4/11 10:03 AM by deadirishpoet
keep lowering the bar; pretty soon the bar is lying on the floor! And guess who will be the ones asking, "how did it all go wrong?"
Slowly ND fans have been being conditioned to a new lesser standards and expectations from the football program. The fans with the most longevity are the ones hardest to fool or 'convert'.
Fifty years ago if ND lost 5 games in year 5, with no championship during that timeframe, it would probably result in 1 more (L) as in "get lost".
This post was edited on 4/11 11:58 AM by perseverare
Slowly ND fans have been being conditioned to a new lesser standards and expectations from the football program. The fans with the most longevity are the ones hardest to fool or 'convert'.
Fifty years ago if ND lost 5 games in year 5, with no championship during that timeframe, it would probably result in 1 more (L) as in "get lost".
This post was edited on 4/11 11:58 AM by perseverare
Our family always had a "tradition" that on Christmas Day the entire family;mom,dad,kids,aunts,uncles,cousins..everyone,40-50 relatives, got together at someone's home to celebrate the holidays. The last time we did this was in 1988.We don't do that anymore...times have changed.
I would argue if you haven't done it for 27 years,it's no longer a "tradition". So..like ND winning Championships, it used to be a "tradition", but it can"t realistically be called that today.
I would argue if you haven't done it for 27 years,it's no longer a "tradition". So..like ND winning Championships, it used to be a "tradition", but it can"t realistically be called that today.
Agree Coach Kelly is a good admin guy (aside from letting the ill fated comment about the other guy's recruits getting out
going forward, a down year should be a 9 W year; 10 W the norm and 11+ not unusual seasons. Whatever program Kelly wanted to instill in this team should be firmly instilled. Time to win.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
9 wins and a bowl win over Miami
12-0 --2012
8-0 last yr pre injuries Beat LSU in bowl game
Time to win ?? Negative Nit wit
"11+ not unusual seasons "- you are a revolting human being and just plain stupid
The board nit wit building his own little box in his basement fantazising ways for coach Kelly to fail in the eyes of the fans --
" Dayne Crist has more character than Kelly ever will " purse last week --- btw mutt have you ever met Coach Kelly or Dayne Crist ? yes - no ??? revolting judgemental fool
Last thing nit wit -- when there are 300 people on this site that makes up about 1% of 1% of 1% of the ND fan base ie your addictive posting on this board is next to worthless and completely irrelevant to anything having to do w Notre Dame Football
Type away fool
ND goes 11-1 -- not unusual -- check got it !! Weis Willingham Davies did that a lot - check got it
This post was edited on 4/13 8:40 AM by continuallyirish
This post was edited on 4/13 8:52 AM by continuallyirish
with all that ND money: you are on a diet of 'lead paint chips"?
was that the NW pre game snack?
Why did the team quit in the USC game; the traditional rival?
And going back to your 12-0! season - where general consensus acknowledges that it may easily have been another 8-4, w/o the perfect luck of the Irish, note the team was was woefully poorly prepared for the NC game; that seems to be faily well accepted as such by fans! But yet within 12 hours of that walloping Your Hero was sitting in interviews with The Eagles! It opens questions about the whole approach and concentration of the NC game?
BTW: you mention injuries as your current excuses. But in other dialog you brag about recruiting and depth; so why with all that recruiting and depth, in year 5 of your program, were you so decimated by injuries that 5/6 losses occurred; injuries happen to all teams. In fact the most mentioned injury was Joe Schmidt, a walk on LB, as the reason for the demise! tOSU lost the #1AND #2 QB's; As for the 2015 8-0! start, before the injuries: is that the same math used in the NW game?
But alas, your out of excuses now:? Winning is the thing fans want to see from you! Win or hit the friggin road!
no more excuses!
If your gonna fling crap - make sure your ready to 'eat '%#^}'... there are other games we can get into if you like? Tulsa? MSU ....
To other fans: sorry but this imposter is pathetic! (and , I woke up with a sore back!; lol)
This post was edited on 4/13 10:26 AM by perseverare
was that the NW pre game snack?
Why did the team quit in the USC game; the traditional rival?
And going back to your 12-0! season - where general consensus acknowledges that it may easily have been another 8-4, w/o the perfect luck of the Irish, note the team was was woefully poorly prepared for the NC game; that seems to be faily well accepted as such by fans! But yet within 12 hours of that walloping Your Hero was sitting in interviews with The Eagles! It opens questions about the whole approach and concentration of the NC game?
BTW: you mention injuries as your current excuses. But in other dialog you brag about recruiting and depth; so why with all that recruiting and depth, in year 5 of your program, were you so decimated by injuries that 5/6 losses occurred; injuries happen to all teams. In fact the most mentioned injury was Joe Schmidt, a walk on LB, as the reason for the demise! tOSU lost the #1AND #2 QB's; As for the 2015 8-0! start, before the injuries: is that the same math used in the NW game?
But alas, your out of excuses now:? Winning is the thing fans want to see from you! Win or hit the friggin road!
no more excuses!
If your gonna fling crap - make sure your ready to 'eat '%#^}'... there are other games we can get into if you like? Tulsa? MSU ....
To other fans: sorry but this imposter is pathetic! (and , I woke up with a sore back!; lol)
This post was edited on 4/13 10:26 AM by perseverare
DIP: exactly! you think he would be reeled in by the 'boss'!
The truth is I have more regard for Kelly than it comes accross but this guy(s)/ (gender generic)goads me to the flaws by attempting to prohibit any critique (critique is not trashing or requesting a fire) of the staff decisions, actions or attitudes. He just is mindless in regards to reality.
Between you me and the rest of the ND fans I want ND to win a NC - regardless of who the HC is! No HC is omnipotent.
The truth is I have more regard for Kelly than it comes accross but this guy(s)/ (gender generic)goads me to the flaws by attempting to prohibit any critique (critique is not trashing or requesting a fire) of the staff decisions, actions or attitudes. He just is mindless in regards to reality.
Between you me and the rest of the ND fans I want ND to win a NC - regardless of who the HC is! No HC is omnipotent.
Don't know about tradition, but as far as "will Kelly be fired ? " I doubt it !
I think that Kelly has the talent this year to be on the low side with at least 8 wins and with good caching decisions and a few breaks,
ND may get to an NC ?
So, based on what I see as fan expectations, a lot of fans seem to think 8 wins is a good season ?
The team would have to almost fall apart before , ND will ever consider firing our coach.
,
I think that Kelly has the talent this year to be on the low side with at least 8 wins and with good caching decisions and a few breaks,
ND may get to an NC ?
So, based on what I see as fan expectations, a lot of fans seem to think 8 wins is a good season ?
The team would have to almost fall apart before , ND will ever consider firing our coach.
,
Rgc7
I agree; with all the talent on this roster, and the kids on the way, it would seem 8 W's would be the 'floor' and a "meh" season. 8 wins will not provoke Jack to make a change; nor will 7; but 7 might get the cursed "declaration of support" from Jack.
And yes, most fans have been conditioned to the idea that 8 W's is now a good season. Weis shot himself in the foot with "9-3 will get you fired"; he set his own standard! Poor Brady Hoke should have trued for the ND gig!
I agree; with all the talent on this roster, and the kids on the way, it would seem 8 W's would be the 'floor' and a "meh" season. 8 wins will not provoke Jack to make a change; nor will 7; but 7 might get the cursed "declaration of support" from Jack.
And yes, most fans have been conditioned to the idea that 8 W's is now a good season. Weis shot himself in the foot with "9-3 will get you fired"; he set his own standard! Poor Brady Hoke should have trued for the ND gig!
A tradition is a belief or a behavior passed down within a group or society with symbolic meaning or specific significance.
That is the actual definition. So let me ask.
Is sacking a coach after not winning a title at ND within 5 years a tradition? My argument is that ND in 127 seasons has never allowed that to happen. So is that not a tradition? Or just something else?
ND has had a B1G opponent on every schedule for the last 98 seasons straight. Yet there isn't one this year. Is that a tradition?
ND has never had turf for footing until last year. Was that a tradition?
Now if you want to talk tradition in the sense of the 'lore' of ND. In the sense of the 4 horsemen, or ND having 3 titles in 4 years and not a single loss in those years. Or ND and their long list of Heisman's and All Americans. If that is 'tradition' as you see it. Then what is ever at risk? Those things can never be taken away from ND. It doesn't matter if ND never stepped on the field again. All of that would still be 'tradition'. The singing of the 1812 overture, or Officer Tim McCarthy and his one liners at the end of the third quarter, would end only because there isn't a game being played. But that tradition wouldn't have been taken away.
So I ask, if you are saying (repeatedly) that I don't understand tradition. Then please without going out of your way. Explain the disconnect. Explain the difference between Kelly being fired or not, and not playing a B1G school is not a tradition issue. But other things are.
I agree with Ewing. You are being deliberately obtuse, trying to warp the definition of a word to fit your vision of what the word should mean. Several have tried to explain what tradition is to you. You either feign ignorance, or, more likely, don't like what people are telling you because you don't like the answers you are getting. There is no "tradition" of firing coaches after a certain period of time.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
If we fired every coach we fired out of a cannon and into Lake Michigan--that would be a tradition
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
Kind of a dumb question really. ND has won 1 title in the past 38 years, well it should be 2 if Bobby Bowden wasn't such a d-bag, so I don't think it is mandatory anymore. Obviously if we finish with only 7-8 wins this year I don't see BK keeping his job and truthfully it is a possibility we only win 8 games. We have a tough schedule and nobody knows what to expect really. On paper things look good but that doesn't mean anything. Hopefully our QB's (or QB) end up improving, I would still love to see EG come back and have a great year but if it is a 2 QB system I am cool if we win. Defense needs to come back strong, especially up front to help the secondary. If Max improves at safety it will also greatly help that group and of course Joe coming back as a leader is greatly needed.
As I said, I have no clue what to expect but as I always say... if these guys go out and play with everything they have, coaches don't make terrible decisions every game, then I will be happy. It would mean we aren't going to lose to a team like Northwestern or get blown out by USC, that isn't acceptable.
So anyway, as I said it isn't about a national title right now but more about the team playing hard and showing improvement. The one aspect of the program not improving though is our recruiting and that isn't a good sign. This years class was decent but nothing amazing. Next years is already starting off worse while other programs are dominating, even teams like Stanford and Penn St. and yes I know there is a long time until signing day so I am always hopeful, but if we don't show up on the field it will not help either.
Show that. Show where in this thread someone has explained tradition and what I am missing. I'm not kidding you literally copy and paste where someone defined it.
I see arguments about not developing QB's. I see arguments about eating paint chips. I see arguments about how many games a season should be won, and what the bar should be for 'great'. So far I don't see anyone explaining in anywhere in this thread what exactly tradition is. The only reason I keep going back to the coach and 5 years thing. Is because that was my original point. I still haven't seen a 'tradition' based argument against it. Just talk about performance and expectations.
Bod,
Great shot ! Could we make the shooting retroactive ? I can think of a few past coaches that would make excellent cannon balls !
Lol.
Do you remember Lou's remark about his wanting to get buried at ND when he died ? He said "the problem was that at times " the fans and alums wanted to do it while he was still alive."
Always loved Lou and his sense of humor.
Great shot ! Could we make the shooting retroactive ? I can think of a few past coaches that would make excellent cannon balls !
Lol.
Do you remember Lou's remark about his wanting to get buried at ND when he died ? He said "the problem was that at times " the fans and alums wanted to do it while he was still alive."
Always loved Lou and his sense of humor.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
Would he fit in the cannon?
On a more serious note. My daughter lives near Charleston SC, and she and some of her friends know one of Charlie weis' younger brothers.
He got. My daughter and a few other people tickets to tha Celebraty Golf Tournament in Myrtle Beach , SC. The group got to meet a lot Of Celebs.
One of them was Golden Tate. They say he was a really nice guy who posed for photos with their group as well as with a lot of oter people.
Small world
On a more serious note. My daughter lives near Charleston SC, and she and some of her friends know one of Charlie weis' younger brothers.
He got. My daughter and a few other people tickets to tha Celebraty Golf Tournament in Myrtle Beach , SC. The group got to meet a lot Of Celebs.
One of them was Golden Tate. They say he was a really nice guy who posed for photos with their group as well as with a lot of oter people.
Small world
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
youse 2 guys! youse know that many of the traditions have fallen by the wayside in recent years! so debating the definition of tradition to afix it to todays attitudes - I assume you just felt the need for an argument?
Pers,
Especially the tradition of winning. I sure miss the days of Leahy , than Ara and Lou. Even Dan Devine brought us an an NC. One use to say
" Don' bet against Joe Louis , the Yankies, and Notre Dame ! I'm really showing my age, but times have sure changed and those great traditions have really gone down the tubes.
Especially the tradition of winning. I sure miss the days of Leahy , than Ara and Lou. Even Dan Devine brought us an an NC. One use to say
" Don' bet against Joe Louis , the Yankies, and Notre Dame ! I'm really showing my age, but times have sure changed and those great traditions have really gone down the tubes.
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